Measurable Outcomes - All Things Product Podcast with Teresa Torres & Petra Wille
Listen to this episode on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
In this episode of All Things Product, Teresa Torres and Petra Wille tackle a classic product question with a twist: Should all outcomes be measurable? Teresa revisits a long-held belief—that outcomes should be metrics—and explains why she’s starting to shift her thinking.
Drawing from hands-on product work (like rethinking outcomes at a recruiting platform), Teresa shows how focusing on value creation moments can sometimes matter more than tracking clean metrics. Petra adds her perspective with the Google HEART framework, highlighting how starting with signals instead of goals can lead to smarter product decisions.
Whether you’re early in discovery or leading a seasoned product team, this episode helps you rethink how to frame success—even when it’s hard to measure.
Key topics we cover:
Why not all outcomes need to be measurable—especially on day one
Teresa’s story: shifting from “applications” to “hires” as a more meaningful outcome
How to work toward measurable outcomes over time
Petra Wille explains how the HEART framework can help teams track value, not just numbers
The difference between metrics, signals, and goals
How to define outcomes when you're pre-product or pre-metrics
Why focusing on value creation moments leads to better product strategy
What most people get wrong about “finding product-market fit”
Resources & Links:
Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com
Mentioned in the episode:
Teresa’s blog post: Shifting from Outputs to Outcomes: Why It Matters and How to Get Started
Google’s HEART Framework
Teresa’s blog post: How Continuous Discovery Works (and Doesn’t) in Early-Stage Startups